I have too many thoughts on having kids. I would like to have kids, but that won't happen. Very informative blog and podcast with Carter Dillard. Everyone please read, listen, and share.
I am the opposite since I was aware of what having kids meant. I have never wanted children of my own. I remember once telling a guy in college who liked me this. He was so apalled and confused he actually pretty much stopped talking to me even though we sat next to each other lol. Luckily my mom was not a typical Latin mom who wanted me to be married at 15 with a hoarde of them. Instead she said education is key. I saw her struggles as a single mom. I myself worry way too much. A kid replaces your own life to me. It is a sacrifice you have to make. It is no longer about you. I love to travel & do me. I have a zoo and I worry about my animals and have to plan any travels around them. I will not leave them with strangers. Now that I moved international travel is on hold because I only pay mom to babysit them. My other main reasons to not have a kid exactly that overpopulation. Factory farms exist because small town farms cannot sustain the demand for so many. I think people's reasons for a kid are selfish. I want sthg to love me. I want to pass on my male name. I. I have never honestly heard a valid unselfish reason. I don't even know what reason it would be. Maybe I want to share my love and guide another human being to become a productive being to Earth to help create a new future lol. That sounds like NWO shit now lol. So I ask WHY do you want to have kids? Honestly though lately I look at newborns and feel an instinct, but then thinking about them crying all night and having to tend to them makes me want to have a mental breakdown lol. Now don't get me wrong. I do not hate kids. Total opposite. I think they bring that light and joy just like innocent animals. We used to play with a kid as teens who had a meth mom whod not feed him & hed basically live with us afterschool & my mom fed him too. I would rather go have a water balloon fight with kids then talk to someone my age cuz gosh they're fucking boring & miserable. We become dead inside & bitter as we age it seems. I am still super goofy and a dork. If the world was full of middle-aged (me 37 years old) and old ppl how boring. Their innocence & wonder I envy because I know the ugly truth they'll soon discover. My other reason. We mostly suffer in this life. We are slaves to society mostly. And the list of the rest mental illness. My dad has anxiety and my Aunt is fucking insane. And why does it have to be my blood? I actually plan to foster kids. There are so many kids in the system being physically, sexually, emotionally abused who need love. Why do I need to bring a kid that looks like me to be fulfilled? It's the human ego. I definitely don't want another mini me running amuck how scary 🤣😂 But I think ppl who want kids should have that right. I still think there should be a 2 kid limit & a rule you have to be mentally, physically, financially stable because too many shit people having kids then abandoning them hence my daddy issues 😜 But seriously having a kid is not like a toy just like pet ownersip. Once my dogs die. My responsibility is over, but a kid is 4 life.
It is not wrong to want to have children but the key is responsibility. Educating our offspring that we need to share the planet with other species and understanding that the suffering of animals is unacceptable so better choices must be made to protect our world.
It's absolutely right for you to want to have kids - to have kids. For one thing, in developed nations, the birthrate is way below the rate to keep the population stable. So have the kids you want. Also, I think you'd be a fabulous dad - so ultra important.
Aug 2, 2022·edited Aug 2, 2022Liked by Wayne Hsiung
The argument to not have children comes on slippery slope and it weakens the environmental movement as a whole. Wanting kids is biologically-- for those who are predisposed. To argue against something so "human" creates an oppressive platform of extreme ideas that most people are not going to support. Result? We are just thought of extremists that put the wellbeing of other animals above 'humankind', and it gets harder to get people to listen to anything we have to say. Instead, perhaps the focus should be on the pursuit of, as you state, "your right to give your own child a good life." What is the definition of a good life? Available parents, or vacation trips? Love and support of family or the newest technological gadget. Meat on the table or beans? Gadgets and trips, and the consumption of meat consumed by the masses are far more destructive than love and support and board night between a child and a parent over a nice vegan dish. Unchecked consumerism will happen with or without kids. Kids and responsible living are not mutually exclusive. It can be done. I have done it and know others who have (and I was one who did not want kids). These are the kids that will continue on with the movement once we are gone.
While we may have a right, that doesn't mean that we need to exercise it. I am 58 years old and decided to never make another human mainly because of the environment. If I changed my mind about having a family, I told myself that I would adopt so that way I still have a family, but did not add to the population. Rescuing animals has always been an activity in my devotion to animal rights (living comprehensively vegan since 1987). Part of that was helping people have their companion animals sterilized and doing feline TNR, which I still do. "Making" more individuals is an irresponsible decision in the world as it is, IMO, human or not.
The Progress of the Human Race must ELIMINATE the down low sexual activity. Therefore, please honor ethics and mental health before freedom and pleasure. And please help AGGRESSIVELY campaign Celibacy and Sobriety to the general public to support people living a sacred celibate life and that lovers and couples loving and caring each other like brothers and sisters. Thank you!
While I've had many of the factors of struggle that led me to where I am (one child, later in life), at the same time I've made an educated & thoughtful decision completely in line with what's being said with the Fair Start program ... that has led me to a life of parenthood I feel proud to celebrate. I hadn't exactly felt compelled to create a genetic legacy, but the beauty & magic of gestation was calling me: I wanted in on that stage of nurturing my child. Once upon a time I imagined 2-3 kids, but I find the devotion and focus on one precious child is my best gift to her. Add to that all the impacts on the planet and finances -- as well as safeguarding my own time & energy resources to model a meaningful life in community -- and I couldn't be happier with my choice.
That's beautiful, Lauren. Thanks so much for sharing this. I'm hoping I can say the same thing about my choice. Granted, that choice may be taken from me over the next few years, as (a) it's hard to adopt as a felon; and (b) it's hard to have biological children when you're in prison.
But regardless I'm happy that people like you are having kids. :)
I may not want to spend more time with this or your blog. You are all over the shop, saying one thing and then another. Excusetarians want, want, want and can't form a logical argument. Watch Endgame 2050, stop holding human privilege mentalities. Having no kids really is not hard. You are not a vegan in the true sense (Vegan Society definition).
Population growth is already stagnant in many developed countries. The answer is helping less developed countries get access to the things that help them modulate their own populations. Guilting ourselves into being childless if we desperately want a child is pointless. I have one daughter and I’m a proud advocate of “one and done”. The research supports me too. Parents of one report the most satisfaction with their childbearing decisions. More than childless folks and parents of more than one.
Definitely a slippery slope IMHO. I’m sure parallels can be drawn between the recent Roe vs Wade decision and seizing control over an individual’s choice to bear a child.. Looking forward to listening to the podcast!🙌
I'm from an older generation, the Boomers. It was expected then that we would have children. Few even questioned the notion. So I had two. From what I've heard, we are all entitled to have one child to replace one adult, iow, you and your spouse get to have two kids. No one factored in divorce and second families. Also, little concern was given to what those children would be like when they grew up. We tended to focus on the little ones. Aren't they cute? Don't they have an exquisite sense of wonder? Well, here's the bad news: Right around the teenage years, they start to change and rebel--just as we did. They're not so sweet and cute anymore. As they grow, they tend to blame us, their parents, for all their problems. We made mistakes because we're not perfect and don't have all the answers. Still, they turn on us. Maybe yours won't. My son and his family moved to another state. We hardly ever talk or see each other. My daughter and I are estranged, off and on. She blames me for I don't know what. If I had it to do again, I'm not sure I'd choose parenthood. If you feel the urge, Wayne, and you've examined your motives and you have factored in all the changes that child will bring to your life, go ahead and do it. Just realize that your activism will be impacted as a result of raising that kid. It's a choice, and only you can make the best one.
Aug 2, 2022·edited Aug 2, 2022Liked by Wayne Hsiung
I think if someone wants to have children it’s their right. Is the problem really about the environment in this regard? This thing about a fair start doesn’t (at least from what you noted) factor in things like social, economic, and political injustices which keep access to these things needed for a “fair start” hindered for some. Maybe the earth’s resource are “dwindling” because of the subset who’s greedy and hoarding perhaps? That said, it could be that the resources really aren’t dwindling but the chosen few want and feel entitled to access to it given their (self appointed) sense of importance as compared to the other “peasantry?”
I bring that up because who’s to really say who should and shouldn’t have children and what would the qualifiers really be to determine that? To me this sounds like something that would , cunningly, promote & cater to an elitist world view that preaches and perpetuates the very issues highlighted to convince people that this is the way to go. That’s not to say I want to see children starving and struggling but this theoretical view sounds bunk to me and, at best, is very questionable from both a practical and moral standpoint.
Hey Wayne. This is Dietz over at Stop Having Kids. Thank you for doing this podcast episode and for doing your podcast in general. I just listened to this episode as well as several others and really appreciate you making these episodes lengthy so you and your guests can talk about a lot and not have to feel rushed. I was wondering if I could possibly do an interview with you for Stop Having Kids about your desire to procreate and to talk about if procreation really does align with vegan principles. Not only would I like to do an interview on the subject, but I'd also like to create a Substack blog on the subject too. If you are interested please send me an email over at info@stophavingkids.org - Thank You.
Reproducing is one of our strongest biological instincts for genetic survival, it can’t be wrong to feel this in my opinion. I think it’s healthy, but we can balance it with a good sense of responsibility.
For me, being a parent has been one of the most amazing and transformative experiences. It has taught me so much, to know love on a level I didn’t know possible, patience, and compassion. I think more often how we were all once babies - no different than my own. My kids have been my greatest teachers.
My son is also the reason our entire family chose to be vegan. When he was 3, we explained where the meat on his plate came from. He didn’t understand though. He thought that cows “pooped out” steak. I told him exactly what happens, not even thinking it was wrong, and he sobbed uncontrollably telling me it’s mean to kill cows. I couldn’t stop thinking about his reaction and started researching. Eventually, found Gary’s speech and never looked back. It’s been 5 years.
If you want kids, I hope you get the opportunity when you’re ready. I am sure they would have an amazing family with lots of love from you and your community!
I have too many thoughts on having kids. I would like to have kids, but that won't happen. Very informative blog and podcast with Carter Dillard. Everyone please read, listen, and share.
I am the opposite since I was aware of what having kids meant. I have never wanted children of my own. I remember once telling a guy in college who liked me this. He was so apalled and confused he actually pretty much stopped talking to me even though we sat next to each other lol. Luckily my mom was not a typical Latin mom who wanted me to be married at 15 with a hoarde of them. Instead she said education is key. I saw her struggles as a single mom. I myself worry way too much. A kid replaces your own life to me. It is a sacrifice you have to make. It is no longer about you. I love to travel & do me. I have a zoo and I worry about my animals and have to plan any travels around them. I will not leave them with strangers. Now that I moved international travel is on hold because I only pay mom to babysit them. My other main reasons to not have a kid exactly that overpopulation. Factory farms exist because small town farms cannot sustain the demand for so many. I think people's reasons for a kid are selfish. I want sthg to love me. I want to pass on my male name. I. I have never honestly heard a valid unselfish reason. I don't even know what reason it would be. Maybe I want to share my love and guide another human being to become a productive being to Earth to help create a new future lol. That sounds like NWO shit now lol. So I ask WHY do you want to have kids? Honestly though lately I look at newborns and feel an instinct, but then thinking about them crying all night and having to tend to them makes me want to have a mental breakdown lol. Now don't get me wrong. I do not hate kids. Total opposite. I think they bring that light and joy just like innocent animals. We used to play with a kid as teens who had a meth mom whod not feed him & hed basically live with us afterschool & my mom fed him too. I would rather go have a water balloon fight with kids then talk to someone my age cuz gosh they're fucking boring & miserable. We become dead inside & bitter as we age it seems. I am still super goofy and a dork. If the world was full of middle-aged (me 37 years old) and old ppl how boring. Their innocence & wonder I envy because I know the ugly truth they'll soon discover. My other reason. We mostly suffer in this life. We are slaves to society mostly. And the list of the rest mental illness. My dad has anxiety and my Aunt is fucking insane. And why does it have to be my blood? I actually plan to foster kids. There are so many kids in the system being physically, sexually, emotionally abused who need love. Why do I need to bring a kid that looks like me to be fulfilled? It's the human ego. I definitely don't want another mini me running amuck how scary 🤣😂 But I think ppl who want kids should have that right. I still think there should be a 2 kid limit & a rule you have to be mentally, physically, financially stable because too many shit people having kids then abandoning them hence my daddy issues 😜 But seriously having a kid is not like a toy just like pet ownersip. Once my dogs die. My responsibility is over, but a kid is 4 life.
It is not wrong to want to have children but the key is responsibility. Educating our offspring that we need to share the planet with other species and understanding that the suffering of animals is unacceptable so better choices must be made to protect our world.
It's absolutely right for you to want to have kids - to have kids. For one thing, in developed nations, the birthrate is way below the rate to keep the population stable. So have the kids you want. Also, I think you'd be a fabulous dad - so ultra important.
aw, thanks! I'm running out of time, but I hope I become a fabulous dad someday. :)
Time does go by. That does count. May it come soon to be the right time for you - right partner, right love.
The argument to not have children comes on slippery slope and it weakens the environmental movement as a whole. Wanting kids is biologically-- for those who are predisposed. To argue against something so "human" creates an oppressive platform of extreme ideas that most people are not going to support. Result? We are just thought of extremists that put the wellbeing of other animals above 'humankind', and it gets harder to get people to listen to anything we have to say. Instead, perhaps the focus should be on the pursuit of, as you state, "your right to give your own child a good life." What is the definition of a good life? Available parents, or vacation trips? Love and support of family or the newest technological gadget. Meat on the table or beans? Gadgets and trips, and the consumption of meat consumed by the masses are far more destructive than love and support and board night between a child and a parent over a nice vegan dish. Unchecked consumerism will happen with or without kids. Kids and responsible living are not mutually exclusive. It can be done. I have done it and know others who have (and I was one who did not want kids). These are the kids that will continue on with the movement once we are gone.
Agreed 100%, Johanna! And I'm sure you're doing a great job with your kids. :)
While we may have a right, that doesn't mean that we need to exercise it. I am 58 years old and decided to never make another human mainly because of the environment. If I changed my mind about having a family, I told myself that I would adopt so that way I still have a family, but did not add to the population. Rescuing animals has always been an activity in my devotion to animal rights (living comprehensively vegan since 1987). Part of that was helping people have their companion animals sterilized and doing feline TNR, which I still do. "Making" more individuals is an irresponsible decision in the world as it is, IMO, human or not.
This is a very respectable position, Susan. Thanks for sharing it.
Zero Population Growth might work if it's adopted without coercion.
The Progress of the Human Race must ELIMINATE the down low sexual activity. Therefore, please honor ethics and mental health before freedom and pleasure. And please help AGGRESSIVELY campaign Celibacy and Sobriety to the general public to support people living a sacred celibate life and that lovers and couples loving and caring each other like brothers and sisters. Thank you!
While I've had many of the factors of struggle that led me to where I am (one child, later in life), at the same time I've made an educated & thoughtful decision completely in line with what's being said with the Fair Start program ... that has led me to a life of parenthood I feel proud to celebrate. I hadn't exactly felt compelled to create a genetic legacy, but the beauty & magic of gestation was calling me: I wanted in on that stage of nurturing my child. Once upon a time I imagined 2-3 kids, but I find the devotion and focus on one precious child is my best gift to her. Add to that all the impacts on the planet and finances -- as well as safeguarding my own time & energy resources to model a meaningful life in community -- and I couldn't be happier with my choice.
That's beautiful, Lauren. Thanks so much for sharing this. I'm hoping I can say the same thing about my choice. Granted, that choice may be taken from me over the next few years, as (a) it's hard to adopt as a felon; and (b) it's hard to have biological children when you're in prison.
But regardless I'm happy that people like you are having kids. :)
I may not want to spend more time with this or your blog. You are all over the shop, saying one thing and then another. Excusetarians want, want, want and can't form a logical argument. Watch Endgame 2050, stop holding human privilege mentalities. Having no kids really is not hard. You are not a vegan in the true sense (Vegan Society definition).
Appreciate the feedback, Marcus!
Population growth is already stagnant in many developed countries. The answer is helping less developed countries get access to the things that help them modulate their own populations. Guilting ourselves into being childless if we desperately want a child is pointless. I have one daughter and I’m a proud advocate of “one and done”. The research supports me too. Parents of one report the most satisfaction with their childbearing decisions. More than childless folks and parents of more than one.
Indeed!
Definitely a slippery slope IMHO. I’m sure parallels can be drawn between the recent Roe vs Wade decision and seizing control over an individual’s choice to bear a child.. Looking forward to listening to the podcast!🙌
it's a good one! Hope France is lots of fun :)
I'm from an older generation, the Boomers. It was expected then that we would have children. Few even questioned the notion. So I had two. From what I've heard, we are all entitled to have one child to replace one adult, iow, you and your spouse get to have two kids. No one factored in divorce and second families. Also, little concern was given to what those children would be like when they grew up. We tended to focus on the little ones. Aren't they cute? Don't they have an exquisite sense of wonder? Well, here's the bad news: Right around the teenage years, they start to change and rebel--just as we did. They're not so sweet and cute anymore. As they grow, they tend to blame us, their parents, for all their problems. We made mistakes because we're not perfect and don't have all the answers. Still, they turn on us. Maybe yours won't. My son and his family moved to another state. We hardly ever talk or see each other. My daughter and I are estranged, off and on. She blames me for I don't know what. If I had it to do again, I'm not sure I'd choose parenthood. If you feel the urge, Wayne, and you've examined your motives and you have factored in all the changes that child will bring to your life, go ahead and do it. Just realize that your activism will be impacted as a result of raising that kid. It's a choice, and only you can make the best one.
Thanks for this Marilyn. I'm sorry you and your kids are estranged.
I think if someone wants to have children it’s their right. Is the problem really about the environment in this regard? This thing about a fair start doesn’t (at least from what you noted) factor in things like social, economic, and political injustices which keep access to these things needed for a “fair start” hindered for some. Maybe the earth’s resource are “dwindling” because of the subset who’s greedy and hoarding perhaps? That said, it could be that the resources really aren’t dwindling but the chosen few want and feel entitled to access to it given their (self appointed) sense of importance as compared to the other “peasantry?”
I bring that up because who’s to really say who should and shouldn’t have children and what would the qualifiers really be to determine that? To me this sounds like something that would , cunningly, promote & cater to an elitist world view that preaches and perpetuates the very issues highlighted to convince people that this is the way to go. That’s not to say I want to see children starving and struggling but this theoretical view sounds bunk to me and, at best, is very questionable from both a practical and moral standpoint.
Hey Wayne. This is Dietz over at Stop Having Kids. Thank you for doing this podcast episode and for doing your podcast in general. I just listened to this episode as well as several others and really appreciate you making these episodes lengthy so you and your guests can talk about a lot and not have to feel rushed. I was wondering if I could possibly do an interview with you for Stop Having Kids about your desire to procreate and to talk about if procreation really does align with vegan principles. Not only would I like to do an interview on the subject, but I'd also like to create a Substack blog on the subject too. If you are interested please send me an email over at info@stophavingkids.org - Thank You.
Reproducing is one of our strongest biological instincts for genetic survival, it can’t be wrong to feel this in my opinion. I think it’s healthy, but we can balance it with a good sense of responsibility.
For me, being a parent has been one of the most amazing and transformative experiences. It has taught me so much, to know love on a level I didn’t know possible, patience, and compassion. I think more often how we were all once babies - no different than my own. My kids have been my greatest teachers.
My son is also the reason our entire family chose to be vegan. When he was 3, we explained where the meat on his plate came from. He didn’t understand though. He thought that cows “pooped out” steak. I told him exactly what happens, not even thinking it was wrong, and he sobbed uncontrollably telling me it’s mean to kill cows. I couldn’t stop thinking about his reaction and started researching. Eventually, found Gary’s speech and never looked back. It’s been 5 years.
If you want kids, I hope you get the opportunity when you’re ready. I am sure they would have an amazing family with lots of love from you and your community!