29 Comments
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Bentham's Bulldog's avatar

I certainly agree that merely reducing a few nasty practices in the shrimp farming industry is not enough. But it's a good first step, and it raises the likelihood of greater progress https://sandcastlesblog.substack.com/p/radical-welfarist-moderate-abolitionist. Yes, some people have gotten pissed off about us, but that's true of any movement for animal welfare. It also got relatively favorable coverage from the daily show. It's controversial in the right way--it's getting people to think seriously about the moral status of shrimp.

You say the shrimpact people are wrong, but my sense is that basically all the shrimp welfare people agree that this isn't enough and that more should be done. I'm also not sure why you say that it "might be the worst PR move in the history of animal rights." My sense is that the PR has been pretty good--some have mocked us, but others have begun seriously thinking about the mistreatment of trillions of shrimp, which is a needed first step towards taking shrimp seriously.

(I'm not sure if I'm misreading this and the early claims are just sort of hyperbole which you go on to disagree with when you say nice things about efforts to improve shrimp welfare. I'm not sure, in other words, if you think the campaign has been bad, or just that it should go further).

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Wayne Hsiung's avatar

I don't think you're misreading. But I would probably weigh the costs and benefits differently than you. I do think it did damage to PR, but I also don't think damage to PR really matters much. The evidence from social movements seems to show people hating you doesn't matter nearly as much as most think. (https://blog.simpleheart.org/p/reputation-doesnt-matter-attention)

I am still hugely supportive of the shrimp welfare stuff, however, as PR is not the only thing that matters. Other things might be more important. Shifting the Overton Window, for example. Or mobilizing activists to think bigger and more ambitiously. I'm actually somewhat skeptical of the short-term welfare benefits -- there are overlapping mortality risks that make any one cause of suffering largely redundant at most farms -- but I think those long-term narrative impacts are very very important!

Also, sorry I haven't gotten back to you on the potential debate series. Will message you separately about that. Your stuff has been awesome.

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Bentham's Bulldog's avatar

Awesome, thanks!

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Jessica Miracola's avatar

Wait, you got married?!! Congratulations! (Sorry if old news, I somehow missed it!)

Thank you for another thought provoking stack ❤️

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Wayne Hsiung's avatar

Haha, yes! For some strange reason, Rose decided to take me. Hopefully not temporary insanity... :)

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Jessica Miracola's avatar

Hahaha well that’s fantastic news! So happy for you and wishing you both all the joy!!!

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Rama's avatar

Right??? Isn't it strange that he paraded Priya "Plea Deal for the Animals" Sawhney around saying they were in a relationship when, according to him, they'd split years earlier? Fakes a relationship with an ex...hides his actual wife. What a weirdo

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Jessica Miracola's avatar

The only weirdo here is you, spamming and liking your own posts.

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Todd's avatar

You daft person. You missed the announcement because he didn't announce it! He had his lackey CHLOE LEFFAKIS add it to his wiki bio quietly while ROSE posted gushing heart-filled loving posts. This from the same guy that lied about being in a relationship with his ex years afterward (SUPER WEIRD) and is open about the crimes he commits. Silent on matters of the heart though bc he married a stranger. Marriage implosion in 3...2...

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Wayne Hsiung's avatar

You've got some hostility problems, friend! Might work on that...

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Todd's avatar

As long as I don't have a lying problem. Find the lie, friend! 🕵️ Might work on that...

Any hostility hurled your way has been more than earned, friend! Make no mistake, I am wholeheartedly enjoying your descent. From total animal liberation in 40 years to dogs and shrimp. What a fall.

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Ed's avatar

Thank you for opening my heart to deeper and deeper levels of compassion. 🦐

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Todd's avatar

Saw your turkey masturbation video. Nice hat. Invest in more razors and less hats, friend.

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Todd's avatar

The nerve of a mf claiming to be Buddhist running from a bald head 🤣🤣🤣

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Rev. Gregory Stevens's avatar

Great writing! Thanks friend.

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Shanil Wijesinghe's avatar

Thank you for enlightening me ont he plight of bristlemouths and rats. And you did a good job putting words to my feelings of apprehension about shrimp activism. I love that these activists are bringing much needed attention to shrimp; however, I feel they might be impaired by status quo bias

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Wayne Hsiung's avatar

Bristlemouths are amazing!

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RW's avatar

Yes - and then there are krill. Even more mass slaughter, mostly due to climate change but also increased industrial catch.

It's all too much to wrap your head around. Maybe not you, or those like us, but certainly 99% of people. There's your real 1% problem.

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Wayne Hsiung's avatar

Sea monkeys are actually a form of krill, and not decapods like farmed shrimp. And you are 100% right!

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RW's avatar

Good to know. I was wondering what the hell sea monkeys are. I've never seen one. Well, maybe I have - as I was flushing the head (toilet) on my boat at sea there was bioluminescence in the bowl, sometimes lots! Turns out they, and many sea creatures are bioluminescent. (The good news is, I think most survived the brief trip into and out of the plumbing.)

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RW's avatar

Speaking of which: https://youtu.be/WL0PmiW3hg4

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Liz Bortolotto's avatar

I love your newsletters. I learned a lot about shrimp today. Congrats on your marriage. I also thought you were single.

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Rama's avatar

Right??? Isn't it strange that he paraded Priya "Plea Deal for the Animals" Sawhney around saying they were in a relationship when, according to him, they'd split years earlier? Fakes a relationship with an ex...hides his actual wife. What a weirdo

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Wayne Hsiung's avatar

Aw, thank you! Rose and I are very happy, and I am very lucky. :)

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Todd's avatar

Stop me when I start lying, friend! 😁

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Todd's avatar

Well she seems happy. You on the other hand...seems like you made an impulse decision bc you're getting old. You guys could've announced your marriage as the new power couple in AR but you didn't. She did...but you...did...not. Why, Wayne? 🤔

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motherharp's avatar

Lots or most of employees on factory fishingships are miserable slaves: at @17:40 in this video:

https://youtu.be/2tuS1LLOcsI?si=L7kXNGjdSNVjZ4O9

When you can't feel for smelt, how can you feel for other humans or for yourself?

I was standing in a grocery two days back where dried smelt with beautiful wide eyes intact were hanging in bags on the wall. They seemed so alive, like the eyes of birds I've rescued.

I went fishing once long before I had changed my ways and chopped fish's heads off. I didn't want to refuse this chore because it would expose my sensitivty to the wrong people, my hosts on this fishing trip. They were vitiated with cruelty and I knew it. We all come up with varlous family/town/nation peer pressures. Some of us are lucky enough to learn early to not conform, to respect and best of all act on our own, genuine feeling/perception.

I think you've done a great thing by putting rescue on such a broad, public basis. I think broad and public will resolve down and up to individual experience . . . Addressing a broad doltish human inclination to interspecies mayhem isn't exactly the same thing as an act of open rescue where you lift and carry, and share your warmth with, some animal in need . . .maybe you're trying to figure out how to rescue tiny fish from factory ships? The end comes so far out of reach.

In this case, I think Americans' addictions --- so close to nutrition, survival and the related hormones ---- addictions to slavery/wage slavery, tobacco and oil are primary obstacles to individuation and sensitivity that would eradicate factory farming on land and sea. So, Wayne, don't ever stop trying to find new approaches, what works, how it works, and where and when and why. But it is so largely about human error regarding the universal value of life and the individual life, one's own life.

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James Greene's avatar

I came upon this lengthy meditation in my emails overnight, by Christian Wiman at Yale Divinity School-- https://harpers.org/archive/2025/12/the-tune-of-things-christian-wiman-consciousness-god/ . He talks about species and objectification and Descartes and some late poetess who liked to hang out in a Boston basement. It scares me to think as how our lives go from frayed family relations to increased offerings of M.A.I.D. by the medical community while our culture and politics dance on the brink of existential disaster, after having driven ourselves to graduate from schools and colleges to possibly make a home in lonely isolation for reasons we can't get to the bottom of-- https://humanevents.com/2025/11/25/libby-emmons-how-i-became-rootless-in-america , https://health.jotwell.com/the-dangers-of-regulating-inducing-death-as-a-medical-practice/ . It's as though what William Blake termed 'single vision' comes at us as so many demons that won't leave us alone.

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Werner Ziegler's avatar

I heard you have to pay $191,704 to the Weber brothers. OUUUUUCH! Maybe dxe will foot the bill. Sure they kicked you out of your own group but...if your sister AMY is still controlling the money...you should be good right? 🤔

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