I agree with you, Wayne. I think we have lost our way profoundly and will be wiped off the planet if we don't learn quickly. We need a spiritual shift back to a reverence for life in all its forms. Most long-lived indigenous cultures knew this. To take the life of another needlessly is simply immoral. Humans are not special unless you are talking about our ability to destroy habitat. The cruelty and ugliness of our "meat production" systems is actually unbelievable. I didn't know about it for many years. I saw a PETA video on a street corner showing the beaks of chickens being cut off. That was the start of my vegan journey. The work you do does make a difference and saves lives. In my case, I went vegan for cruelty reasons. However, I got profound health benefits from the diet change.
I don’t really understand how decent people can continue to ignore the price paid by animals, even though horrific, and keep eating meat without giving it more than a passing thought. (I suspect it is somehow related to humans’ ability to ignore our own mortality in spite of all the evidence.) Most will only stop eating meat once educated on the negative effect on their own health and well being. No motivation like self interest. Unfortunately such education is slow, and has to be accompanied by other factors such as high prices as well as measures to inform people constantly and in graphic terms on how the meat on their plate got there. Something like the measures it took to make smoking a thing of the past.
You are absolutely right. While some approaches may reduce the amount of killing and suffering, which is certainly good, until the immorality of murder and torture of sentient beings is ended there will continue to be horrible problems.
Wayne I am opposed to you cutting the podcast :( I have found it immensely helpful, entertaining , inpactful, enlightening is that a word. Anyway I totally get when planning and taking on other important projects sometimes requires sacrifices in other areas I hope the simple heart podcast isn't one but thanks for creating it and having amazing the great conversations you had .... Much love and all the best
Great debate about important complex issues. was a little bit like Firing Line with William Buckley. Was so valuable to hear you two express your different opinions and with sone help from google hahah.
I think your podcast are terrific. I hope you continue.
Really an interesting article, but, to me, rather depressing inasmuch as the chances of animals not being eaten just for moral reasons seems like a truly impossible, never to become reality. I had hoped, in my simple mind, that the idea of eating lab grown ‘meat’ was the answer for the future. I cannot begin to hope or believe that the worlds population will ever stop for solely compassionate reasons. 😞
I have wondered for a long time why time-space reality is so much about everything (almost) eating other beings. The wasp stings the butterfly to death, the big fish eats the little one etc.
I have been vegan for many years now, but don't believe it is right to force dogs and cats to be vegan.
The whole system is set up wrong in the material world, but I believe it is our responsibility as stewards to continue striving to find solutions which will make life better for all sentient creatures.
Perhaps when enough people become conscious, and stop eating them, etc., there will be a paradigm shift in which omnivore and carnivore animals will change, too. That's my hope, anyway.
i'm sure they can find a solution to cultivated meat at scale, but i agree empathy is the real horrifying issue here.
planet earth is a vicious and brutal place, humans are no different, i grew up thinking humans were nice, then everyone was completely awful to me. the crucifixion sums up earth.
It's really pathetic how brain washed we all are, not just about consuming. meat, but many other items. Other than trafficking or murdering a fellow human, meat has got to be the worst, as it involves animal trafficking, slavery, sexual abuse, abduction and murder. And hey you knucklyheads, once you do kick the meat, you discover so many new and healthier ways to cook that are delicious and more nutritious. I remain as stubborn on my side of the fence as they are on theirs.
I agree with all your arguments in this blog except around cultivated meat. I believe that the scale issues can ultimately be overcome and that cultivated meat will eventually become completely separated from animal use. When we are farming cells without any animal inputs whatsoever a major source of conflict and cognitive dissonance will be relieved. This will completely change the conversation around animal rights and allow it to move forward unencumbered by the huge incentive people have to dismiss the suffering of animals merely because they enjoy eating them.
I understand your concept and I am pro lab meat, but underneath it all, Yes we are still exploiting another being in a science experiment way and still carries the animal use you're trying to abolish. I think it comes down to is eating meat ethical? I was watching some animal videos on YouTube last night where a wasp lays a egg in a roach and the baby eats it from the inside out, some other creature that sucks the life out of fish and other creatures that pretty much torture their prey to eat......I think the only reason humans see it as immoral is because we are aware. If someone lives out in the woods and lives off his own land by eating the wild animals is that wrong? I do not think eating meat is immoral or unethical, BUT at this point theres too many people and no animal can live a "natural" life. I remember as a kid visiting my Uncle in PuertoRico he bought a poor pig and he stabbed him in the neck pretty sloppily so it did suffer then me eating it later feeling a bit queasy as I was just trying to befriend the piggie. But when I look at nature other animals kill their prey pretty gruesome so I am still against animal cruelty, etc and I cowardly could never kill an animal. I just made the choice to put my 16 year old dog and that was torture and animals like cats, etc cannot eat vegan because they are carnivores we still require meat. We will have to get rid of pets, breakdown all the factory farms and shun people that eat meat to have a totally different future and evolve on only vegan food, but the chain continues in nature either way, but I fully agree with your stance that it does continue to promote that we have the right to take a life when we don't necessarily have to.
I agree with you, Wayne. I think we have lost our way profoundly and will be wiped off the planet if we don't learn quickly. We need a spiritual shift back to a reverence for life in all its forms. Most long-lived indigenous cultures knew this. To take the life of another needlessly is simply immoral. Humans are not special unless you are talking about our ability to destroy habitat. The cruelty and ugliness of our "meat production" systems is actually unbelievable. I didn't know about it for many years. I saw a PETA video on a street corner showing the beaks of chickens being cut off. That was the start of my vegan journey. The work you do does make a difference and saves lives. In my case, I went vegan for cruelty reasons. However, I got profound health benefits from the diet change.
I don’t really understand how decent people can continue to ignore the price paid by animals, even though horrific, and keep eating meat without giving it more than a passing thought. (I suspect it is somehow related to humans’ ability to ignore our own mortality in spite of all the evidence.) Most will only stop eating meat once educated on the negative effect on their own health and well being. No motivation like self interest. Unfortunately such education is slow, and has to be accompanied by other factors such as high prices as well as measures to inform people constantly and in graphic terms on how the meat on their plate got there. Something like the measures it took to make smoking a thing of the past.
You are absolutely right. While some approaches may reduce the amount of killing and suffering, which is certainly good, until the immorality of murder and torture of sentient beings is ended there will continue to be horrible problems.
Wayne I am opposed to you cutting the podcast :( I have found it immensely helpful, entertaining , inpactful, enlightening is that a word. Anyway I totally get when planning and taking on other important projects sometimes requires sacrifices in other areas I hope the simple heart podcast isn't one but thanks for creating it and having amazing the great conversations you had .... Much love and all the best
I'm in agreement with you Wayne excellent blog
Great debate about important complex issues. was a little bit like Firing Line with William Buckley. Was so valuable to hear you two express your different opinions and with sone help from google hahah.
I think your podcast are terrific. I hope you continue.
Really an interesting article, but, to me, rather depressing inasmuch as the chances of animals not being eaten just for moral reasons seems like a truly impossible, never to become reality. I had hoped, in my simple mind, that the idea of eating lab grown ‘meat’ was the answer for the future. I cannot begin to hope or believe that the worlds population will ever stop for solely compassionate reasons. 😞
I always appreciate reading your posts - they are so informative. Thank you Wayne!
I have wondered for a long time why time-space reality is so much about everything (almost) eating other beings. The wasp stings the butterfly to death, the big fish eats the little one etc.
I have been vegan for many years now, but don't believe it is right to force dogs and cats to be vegan.
The whole system is set up wrong in the material world, but I believe it is our responsibility as stewards to continue striving to find solutions which will make life better for all sentient creatures.
Perhaps when enough people become conscious, and stop eating them, etc., there will be a paradigm shift in which omnivore and carnivore animals will change, too. That's my hope, anyway.
there is an excellent interview here..https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ec2wdKUx6aE&feature=youtu.be&fs=e&s=cl&fbclid=IwAR2PAVTSL7kzHxoUCBjfnGHno_m-SNsv26fsvbCvtWx3-NcAYzqvnt7d87Q
About the same thing.. very worth listening to.. it really opened my eyes..so much sense, economical and ethical
i'm sure they can find a solution to cultivated meat at scale, but i agree empathy is the real horrifying issue here.
planet earth is a vicious and brutal place, humans are no different, i grew up thinking humans were nice, then everyone was completely awful to me. the crucifixion sums up earth.
It's really pathetic how brain washed we all are, not just about consuming. meat, but many other items. Other than trafficking or murdering a fellow human, meat has got to be the worst, as it involves animal trafficking, slavery, sexual abuse, abduction and murder. And hey you knucklyheads, once you do kick the meat, you discover so many new and healthier ways to cook that are delicious and more nutritious. I remain as stubborn on my side of the fence as they are on theirs.
I agree with all your arguments in this blog except around cultivated meat. I believe that the scale issues can ultimately be overcome and that cultivated meat will eventually become completely separated from animal use. When we are farming cells without any animal inputs whatsoever a major source of conflict and cognitive dissonance will be relieved. This will completely change the conversation around animal rights and allow it to move forward unencumbered by the huge incentive people have to dismiss the suffering of animals merely because they enjoy eating them.
I understand your concept and I am pro lab meat, but underneath it all, Yes we are still exploiting another being in a science experiment way and still carries the animal use you're trying to abolish. I think it comes down to is eating meat ethical? I was watching some animal videos on YouTube last night where a wasp lays a egg in a roach and the baby eats it from the inside out, some other creature that sucks the life out of fish and other creatures that pretty much torture their prey to eat......I think the only reason humans see it as immoral is because we are aware. If someone lives out in the woods and lives off his own land by eating the wild animals is that wrong? I do not think eating meat is immoral or unethical, BUT at this point theres too many people and no animal can live a "natural" life. I remember as a kid visiting my Uncle in PuertoRico he bought a poor pig and he stabbed him in the neck pretty sloppily so it did suffer then me eating it later feeling a bit queasy as I was just trying to befriend the piggie. But when I look at nature other animals kill their prey pretty gruesome so I am still against animal cruelty, etc and I cowardly could never kill an animal. I just made the choice to put my 16 year old dog and that was torture and animals like cats, etc cannot eat vegan because they are carnivores we still require meat. We will have to get rid of pets, breakdown all the factory farms and shun people that eat meat to have a totally different future and evolve on only vegan food, but the chain continues in nature either way, but I fully agree with your stance that it does continue to promote that we have the right to take a life when we don't necessarily have to.