(From Wayne's team) Hi folks! We want you to join the Open Rescue Advocates Meeting on Sunday (9/22)! To join this meeting, please FILL OUT THE REGISTRATION FORM at https://www.simpleheart.org/ashatrialorameeting to get (via email) the Zoom link and/or address in San Francisco. Hope to see you all on Sunday!
The only presidential candidate who's policies I resonate with is JILL STEIN of the Green Party. Win or lose, I must vote my conscience. I am not obligated to vote for any specific candidate.
Support of the development and sale of lab-grown meat is also an interesting topic when looking at Trump's associates. While DJT hasn't said much about it, much of the MAGA crowd (including Donald Jr.) openly support legislation banning it. Larry Kudlow is also upset over plant-based beer for some reason. To its credit, the Heritage Foundation has generally opposed similar legislation, albeit on anti-protectionism grounds rather than moral grounds. To my knowledge Harris has been pretty quiet on this particular topic, though Biden has been somewhat supportive with at least one Executive Order supporting it (or so I have seen claimed).
Switching gears, how much discretion did Harris have in deciding to take on those two mentioned cases as AG of California? Was her defense in those cases necessitated by her position, or do they reflect an active decision on her part to defend the rights of animals?
They are an active decision. The AG has a legal obligation to defend the state, but there are many instances where the AG (at the state or federal level) declines to vigorously offer a defense to the state's position. Harris did not do that. She defended the laws aggressively.
Biden did the opposite. He had no obligation to intervene on Prop 12, and it's relatively rare to see Presidents act in that fashion. A dispute about state law has relatively little to do with a President's legal domain. But Biden put his thumb on the scale, and in a very aggressive way. I have no doubt this affected the Justice he had just nominated, and the animals were very close to suffering a defeat as a result.
Biden is, in my opinion, one of the worst Presidents in recent history on animal rights, partly for that reason. It is one of the many reasons I am grateful he stepped down from his campaign.
While you mention one incident of Donald Trump Jr hunting an endangered sheep, it underscores the impact of the Trump family on loosening hunting laws and both son's diabolical lust for killing animals. They have served as spokesman for the Safari Club International, traveled regularly on hunting trips, and used the family's upstate NY property to hold shooting parties where additional animals are trucked in. This makes Trump clearly the more egregious choice for President.
I don't see much to be hopeful about in regard to either candidate having much of an impact on the future of animal rights.
If Harris is elected, maybe we can hope that she will demand plant-based options to be included on all federal facility and government program and event menus, and then be questioned about it by the press, which should bring some attention to animal rights.
If Trump is elected, I guess all hope is on the approval of ending many farm subsidies provided in the Farm Bill which could be very impactful.
Thank you for the very enlightening, but rather depressing post. I did get a giggle from your "He [Trump] has mocked vegan food and cannot even pronounce the word."
So, Wayne, had to pay $5 so I could remind you there are 3 candidates running for POTUS! Actually quite a few more. Are you supporting one of the biggest scams happening in America for over the past year and ignoring, RFK Jr. too?! Do you have any idea how well he’s doing out here? 51% of Americans have left the corrupt, corporate owned, do nothing for us parties. Kennedy running as an independent has a hell of a chance of winning! Would you pls. add his take on animal rights? I know he loves animals! Thank you and thx for all you do for animals! (And people, pls. don’t jump on me saying he’ll never win…blah, blah, blah. If you’re not following him you have no idea what’s going on w/him. He’s doing fantastic out here and Americans are loving him!! The way he’s being ignored and being attacked by the duopoly should say it all. They’re terrified he will win.) Cheers and enjoy your weekend! #kennedy24
Consider this about RFK Jr: he trains hawks to hunt with him, and keeps a taxidermied Sumatran Tiger on display in his home. Years ago I liked his environmental standing, but he now considers only his own ego, could prove to be the factor that gets Trump elected. Most of the Kennedys have launched a campaign against him.
Wow! He’s been a highly respected environmental lawyer for the past 4 decades and I see no giant ego whatsoever! I can’t wait to have 2 environmentalists in the WH instead of NONE! (Referring to his VP pick and himself.) It’s a shame how so many don’t know too much about him and refuse to listen to him! He is exactly who we need at this time! We can’t take another 4 years of a D or R!. I’m sorry if you think we can. And to clear up your, most of the Kennedy’s nonsense statement. A handful out of around 100 family members work for Biden. Do I need to explain any further?! Maybe instead of listening to hearsay on msm follow him on YouTube! Or at least go read the comments on his videos and see first hand the phenomena happening out here! We are fed up!! #kennedy24
I’m assuming you’re talking about, Kerrie? If you are, are you familiar w/her non-profit that the dems donate big time to?! She can most certainly be bought off but her brother can’t be!! And you believe what you want about his family members! You have no interest to know the truth.
Have you listened to him in the last 2 decades?!
What’s your problem w/him?! The only one running talking about the real problems we’re having /facing w/solutions!! Have you heard anything from him since he started this journey over a year ago?!
I follow Bobby on YouTube. Maybe you should try it and get informed about what’s going on! If I don’t hear it straight from his mouth it has no merit.
And hell no I didn’t get the jab!! I’m not a fan of Russian roulette! You probably don’t think it was a plandemic either!
Hey Wayne, you're right that the change has to come from individuals acting on their own chosen principles. Merely coincidentally causing circumstances like defunding farmers temporarily is not a practice of ideals or vision. In fact, human autonomy is consistent with freedom for other animals, and will lead there, but autonomy is not something we can force on anyone, and it is not the same thing across species, from humans to bees for example. Many relatively autonomous species are hormone-governed predators and prey, like both the wealthy and the poor among humans are. Are you thinking that reaction against Trump is autonomy and therefore Trump is causing autonomy? Or is it more that Trump's shameless antisocial greed has made of himself a noxious focus for attention of many people who otherwise would take their autonomy for granted? Was autonomy bought by gun-lovers like Trump when they shot Native Americans, redcoats or confederates? Or did they simply find an advantage and take it? One of Trump's main vocal supporters, Jordan Peterson, calls himself a monarchist, so he's for ruling class autonomy, but he doesn't care to help "leftists" improve the very worthy though power-focussed argument for going beyond the class system; and Trump is no friend of autonomy for North Americans of African descent. I think that as a person with a large audience, you should take advantage of Harris' tendency to favor decency towards other species, point that out encouragingly to her and to others, and contrast that with Trump's manifest promises of torture and pollution. Trump's attacks might scare people into building Trump-focussed endurance but he could very well end Earth's biosphere too. He would not be grateful for helping the defenders of the biosphere develop endurance, except after deciding to acknowledge the facts that Michael Mann and others have presented. That he must do eventually due to his own learning from experience, which he has not yet tried to do. If anything you should wish to make him grateful to you for delivering him also from the grip of paralysis of livestocking that dominates humankind. He offers nothing comparable with that for now. You have already freed many people by doing what you have done, that is probably the value that you should apply in your formulations concerning where public figures fit in.
Wondering about Sen. Cory Booker here, who is very close with Harris. He is vegan, has influenced her to go vegan before dinner (wonder how that's going???), and is trying to get the Farm Reform Act passed https://vegnews.com/cory-booker-banning-factory-farms-bipartisan. I do hope he plays a huge role in her circle.
At the minimum I do see Harris as the emergency triage that we need to save our own human asses from Trump fascism.
In this respect I am uplifted by the enthusiasm for Harris' candidacy and will have lots of popcorn watching what develops, but, I'll believe it when I see it. After that, politics is just a pathetic carnival of dumbing down and human de-evolution to me.
Let’s hope that since the assassination on DT ‘s life did not resulting in death ,maybe his sons mite think about the value of life irrelevant of what body it’s in in this incarnation! To be a good woman/ man you must respect animals and their desire to live their God given right the same as we do, Murdering them for the sake of it is sick and immoral and wrong on every level ! Trump family please be kind to animals 🙏🏼💚
I am surprised you didn't go after Don Jr for utter disregard for any animal rights and total support for hunting wildlife. TFG himself supports total unlimited and unrestricted hunting rights. They have a despicable record on this and yet somehow you think TFG will be better for animal rights? Your answer didn't surprise me. It shocked me.
I guess I was looking for a couple of paragraphs voicing your outrage and how unacceptable their behavior is and how barbaric it is, as opposed to just one sentence reporting a fact and then saying they might still be better than their opponent.
It's past time to de-fund bailouts for companies that torture, pollute and foster disease. They are hurting animals and humans alike, and we are all paying for it.
Wayne, I find this "both sides" analysis very lacking. Saying "maybe this and maybe that therefore we cannot choose" is the easy way out. You mention cancellation of the subsidies, I will stipulate that if the subsidies indeed are cancelled that would be amazing for animals. What would you place as the probability of these subsidies being cancelled? Consider that Trump's base includes many rural voters that depend on these subsidies (we should find them alternatives so they don't, but that's not the point now). Consider that the heritage foundation is mainly concerned with things like making sure there are only white heterosexual Christian families, where the mom stays at home and is subservient to the dad. Where on their list of priorities do you think cancelling farm subsidies is? Does it break the top 100? Trump was President for 4 years, why did we not see the cancellation then? The last administration was about tax cuts for rich people, increased taxes for others, and depriving people of rights. Where did they fight for animals? Then consider that unless Trump takes executive action he has to convince Congress to sign off on this. How likely do you think that is? And this is not a partisan thing, Dems support the subsidies too. Can you name even 10 Senators and 50 house members who would support this? Considering all these factors, if I had to place a bet, I would place the probability of this at much less than 5%, probably even less than 1%.
The culture is important. Politicians generally need to be pressured into doing what is right. Harris needs the vegetarians and vegans, Trump does not. Read as: Harris can be nudged by vegans, whereas who in the Rep coalition would ever support giving an inch to veganism? The party who got up in arms because Michelle Obama tried to put more vegetables in school lunches is now going to go woke and even entertain us?
As for the accelerationist argument, that making things worse to make them better is somehow viable, can you point to a single example in history where that worked?
Also regarding comments about people's conscience: Veganism is not about your conscience, it's about the animals. If you had to slaughter an animal, and in exchange a dictator, satisfied with tainting your pure soul, would command veganism on everyone, that is absolutely the right thing to do. If you feel bad about your vote, suck it up buttercup, animals have it worse. Hopefully that bad feeling will be counteracted by the good feeling of less animals being harmed. If you have some serious plan to put Stein in the Whitehouse, that's a different story, but as far as I understand, it is a protest vote.
PS: A broken clock is right twice a day. KBJ's vote to strike down prop 12 is shameful and on its own solidifies her as my most disliked of the liberal justices, but it's also disingenuous to say it was "saved by conservatives". 2/3 Dem appointed justices voted for it and 3/6 Rep appointed ones did. Anything that goes through the Supreme Court needs conservative votes to pass, that's just a sad reality. Also, have we considered how bad Dobbs was for animals? All these extra people that would otherwise have not been born?
You have a following, people look up to you. If you're going to come in with a flaming hot take, it should be supported by better analysis than this. If you woke up one day in November and read that Trump won the electoral college by barely eking out Pennsylvania let's say by 5 votes and you discovered that 3 Pennsylvanians changed their vote from Kamala to Trump due to your post, can you in earnest say you would be happy with this result? If not, I would implore you to consider writing a more complete analysis.
(From Wayne's team) Hi folks! We want you to join the Open Rescue Advocates Meeting on Sunday (9/22)! To join this meeting, please FILL OUT THE REGISTRATION FORM at https://www.simpleheart.org/ashatrialorameeting to get (via email) the Zoom link and/or address in San Francisco. Hope to see you all on Sunday!
Also, RSVP on Facebook at:
https://facebook.com/events/s/support-octobers-righttorescue/1034967791404172/
The only presidential candidate who's policies I resonate with is JILL STEIN of the Green Party. Win or lose, I must vote my conscience. I am not obligated to vote for any specific candidate.
Jill's great!
Support of the development and sale of lab-grown meat is also an interesting topic when looking at Trump's associates. While DJT hasn't said much about it, much of the MAGA crowd (including Donald Jr.) openly support legislation banning it. Larry Kudlow is also upset over plant-based beer for some reason. To its credit, the Heritage Foundation has generally opposed similar legislation, albeit on anti-protectionism grounds rather than moral grounds. To my knowledge Harris has been pretty quiet on this particular topic, though Biden has been somewhat supportive with at least one Executive Order supporting it (or so I have seen claimed).
Switching gears, how much discretion did Harris have in deciding to take on those two mentioned cases as AG of California? Was her defense in those cases necessitated by her position, or do they reflect an active decision on her part to defend the rights of animals?
They are an active decision. The AG has a legal obligation to defend the state, but there are many instances where the AG (at the state or federal level) declines to vigorously offer a defense to the state's position. Harris did not do that. She defended the laws aggressively.
Biden did the opposite. He had no obligation to intervene on Prop 12, and it's relatively rare to see Presidents act in that fashion. A dispute about state law has relatively little to do with a President's legal domain. But Biden put his thumb on the scale, and in a very aggressive way. I have no doubt this affected the Justice he had just nominated, and the animals were very close to suffering a defeat as a result.
Biden is, in my opinion, one of the worst Presidents in recent history on animal rights, partly for that reason. It is one of the many reasons I am grateful he stepped down from his campaign.
While you mention one incident of Donald Trump Jr hunting an endangered sheep, it underscores the impact of the Trump family on loosening hunting laws and both son's diabolical lust for killing animals. They have served as spokesman for the Safari Club International, traveled regularly on hunting trips, and used the family's upstate NY property to hold shooting parties where additional animals are trucked in. This makes Trump clearly the more egregious choice for President.
Very reasonable points, Lawrence. Thanks for sharing.
Totally agree!!! Thanks, Lawrence.
Farm subsides must be stopped or at least targeted to a new food system exclusively, not animal AG polluters and exploiters of precious life.
Agree 100%
I don't see much to be hopeful about in regard to either candidate having much of an impact on the future of animal rights.
If Harris is elected, maybe we can hope that she will demand plant-based options to be included on all federal facility and government program and event menus, and then be questioned about it by the press, which should bring some attention to animal rights.
If Trump is elected, I guess all hope is on the approval of ending many farm subsidies provided in the Farm Bill which could be very impactful.
Thank you for the very enlightening, but rather depressing post. I did get a giggle from your "He [Trump] has mocked vegan food and cannot even pronounce the word."
So, Wayne, had to pay $5 so I could remind you there are 3 candidates running for POTUS! Actually quite a few more. Are you supporting one of the biggest scams happening in America for over the past year and ignoring, RFK Jr. too?! Do you have any idea how well he’s doing out here? 51% of Americans have left the corrupt, corporate owned, do nothing for us parties. Kennedy running as an independent has a hell of a chance of winning! Would you pls. add his take on animal rights? I know he loves animals! Thank you and thx for all you do for animals! (And people, pls. don’t jump on me saying he’ll never win…blah, blah, blah. If you’re not following him you have no idea what’s going on w/him. He’s doing fantastic out here and Americans are loving him!! The way he’s being ignored and being attacked by the duopoly should say it all. They’re terrified he will win.) Cheers and enjoy your weekend! #kennedy24
Consider this about RFK Jr: he trains hawks to hunt with him, and keeps a taxidermied Sumatran Tiger on display in his home. Years ago I liked his environmental standing, but he now considers only his own ego, could prove to be the factor that gets Trump elected. Most of the Kennedys have launched a campaign against him.
Wow! He’s been a highly respected environmental lawyer for the past 4 decades and I see no giant ego whatsoever! I can’t wait to have 2 environmentalists in the WH instead of NONE! (Referring to his VP pick and himself.) It’s a shame how so many don’t know too much about him and refuse to listen to him! He is exactly who we need at this time! We can’t take another 4 years of a D or R!. I’m sorry if you think we can. And to clear up your, most of the Kennedy’s nonsense statement. A handful out of around 100 family members work for Biden. Do I need to explain any further?! Maybe instead of listening to hearsay on msm follow him on YouTube! Or at least go read the comments on his videos and see first hand the phenomena happening out here! We are fed up!! #kennedy24
-RFK's own sister and many close, sane members of the family, have asked him to drop out.
-Have you taken the COVID vaccine? Or do you think it's a conspiracy? -I've watched him speak--or more accurately, ramble--many times.
-Is YouTube your source for news?
I’m assuming you’re talking about, Kerrie? If you are, are you familiar w/her non-profit that the dems donate big time to?! She can most certainly be bought off but her brother can’t be!! And you believe what you want about his family members! You have no interest to know the truth.
Have you listened to him in the last 2 decades?!
What’s your problem w/him?! The only one running talking about the real problems we’re having /facing w/solutions!! Have you heard anything from him since he started this journey over a year ago?!
I follow Bobby on YouTube. Maybe you should try it and get informed about what’s going on! If I don’t hear it straight from his mouth it has no merit.
And hell no I didn’t get the jab!! I’m not a fan of Russian roulette! You probably don’t think it was a plandemic either!
#kennedy24
Your answers say it all.
I can only hope that if Harris wins changes will happen but still I am not optimistic. The continuous suffering of animals overwhelms me💔.
Hey Wayne, you're right that the change has to come from individuals acting on their own chosen principles. Merely coincidentally causing circumstances like defunding farmers temporarily is not a practice of ideals or vision. In fact, human autonomy is consistent with freedom for other animals, and will lead there, but autonomy is not something we can force on anyone, and it is not the same thing across species, from humans to bees for example. Many relatively autonomous species are hormone-governed predators and prey, like both the wealthy and the poor among humans are. Are you thinking that reaction against Trump is autonomy and therefore Trump is causing autonomy? Or is it more that Trump's shameless antisocial greed has made of himself a noxious focus for attention of many people who otherwise would take their autonomy for granted? Was autonomy bought by gun-lovers like Trump when they shot Native Americans, redcoats or confederates? Or did they simply find an advantage and take it? One of Trump's main vocal supporters, Jordan Peterson, calls himself a monarchist, so he's for ruling class autonomy, but he doesn't care to help "leftists" improve the very worthy though power-focussed argument for going beyond the class system; and Trump is no friend of autonomy for North Americans of African descent. I think that as a person with a large audience, you should take advantage of Harris' tendency to favor decency towards other species, point that out encouragingly to her and to others, and contrast that with Trump's manifest promises of torture and pollution. Trump's attacks might scare people into building Trump-focussed endurance but he could very well end Earth's biosphere too. He would not be grateful for helping the defenders of the biosphere develop endurance, except after deciding to acknowledge the facts that Michael Mann and others have presented. That he must do eventually due to his own learning from experience, which he has not yet tried to do. If anything you should wish to make him grateful to you for delivering him also from the grip of paralysis of livestocking that dominates humankind. He offers nothing comparable with that for now. You have already freed many people by doing what you have done, that is probably the value that you should apply in your formulations concerning where public figures fit in.
Wondering about Sen. Cory Booker here, who is very close with Harris. He is vegan, has influenced her to go vegan before dinner (wonder how that's going???), and is trying to get the Farm Reform Act passed https://vegnews.com/cory-booker-banning-factory-farms-bipartisan. I do hope he plays a huge role in her circle.
At the minimum I do see Harris as the emergency triage that we need to save our own human asses from Trump fascism.
(If Trump were to win you can pretty much count on even more persecution of animal defenders. Read this: Donald Trump Says Vegans Should Be Punished, Too https://thebsproutdotcom.wordpress.com/2016/11/02/donald-trump-says-vegans-should-be-punished-too/?fbclid=IwY2xjawEQ-MtleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHcRkSombD3iCwsBmgt4PngnFEr2J3i4xmpAcnfb16EFgC7bkO41k_cC9TA_aem_JsGUh9ZgIML-SCWzj9rpHg).
In this respect I am uplifted by the enthusiasm for Harris' candidacy and will have lots of popcorn watching what develops, but, I'll believe it when I see it. After that, politics is just a pathetic carnival of dumbing down and human de-evolution to me.
Let’s hope that since the assassination on DT ‘s life did not resulting in death ,maybe his sons mite think about the value of life irrelevant of what body it’s in in this incarnation! To be a good woman/ man you must respect animals and their desire to live their God given right the same as we do, Murdering them for the sake of it is sick and immoral and wrong on every level ! Trump family please be kind to animals 🙏🏼💚
I am surprised you didn't go after Don Jr for utter disregard for any animal rights and total support for hunting wildlife. TFG himself supports total unlimited and unrestricted hunting rights. They have a despicable record on this and yet somehow you think TFG will be better for animal rights? Your answer didn't surprise me. It shocked me.
It's in the blog.
"Trump, culturally, is a huge meat eater who has supported hunting; his son Donald Jr. went to Mongolia and killed an endangered sheep."
Thank you for replying. I appreciate it.
I guess I was looking for a couple of paragraphs voicing your outrage and how unacceptable their behavior is and how barbaric it is, as opposed to just one sentence reporting a fact and then saying they might still be better than their opponent.
Anyway, it is what it is.
Makes complete sense and appreciate the feedback!
We all know it is barbaric. Of course I don’t think it’s any more barbaric than what happens to farm animals by the millions each day.
It's past time to de-fund bailouts for companies that torture, pollute and foster disease. They are hurting animals and humans alike, and we are all paying for it.
Thanks, Wayne.
I am not a vegan or a vegetarian. but I do think farm animals should be treated better during their short lives.
Please read my article on chickens, it’s not an easy read but there are no distressing images.
https://open.substack.com/pub/abforbes/p/has-our-cruelty-gone-too-far?r=yn8c0&utm_medium=ios
Wayne, I find this "both sides" analysis very lacking. Saying "maybe this and maybe that therefore we cannot choose" is the easy way out. You mention cancellation of the subsidies, I will stipulate that if the subsidies indeed are cancelled that would be amazing for animals. What would you place as the probability of these subsidies being cancelled? Consider that Trump's base includes many rural voters that depend on these subsidies (we should find them alternatives so they don't, but that's not the point now). Consider that the heritage foundation is mainly concerned with things like making sure there are only white heterosexual Christian families, where the mom stays at home and is subservient to the dad. Where on their list of priorities do you think cancelling farm subsidies is? Does it break the top 100? Trump was President for 4 years, why did we not see the cancellation then? The last administration was about tax cuts for rich people, increased taxes for others, and depriving people of rights. Where did they fight for animals? Then consider that unless Trump takes executive action he has to convince Congress to sign off on this. How likely do you think that is? And this is not a partisan thing, Dems support the subsidies too. Can you name even 10 Senators and 50 house members who would support this? Considering all these factors, if I had to place a bet, I would place the probability of this at much less than 5%, probably even less than 1%.
The culture is important. Politicians generally need to be pressured into doing what is right. Harris needs the vegetarians and vegans, Trump does not. Read as: Harris can be nudged by vegans, whereas who in the Rep coalition would ever support giving an inch to veganism? The party who got up in arms because Michelle Obama tried to put more vegetables in school lunches is now going to go woke and even entertain us?
As for the accelerationist argument, that making things worse to make them better is somehow viable, can you point to a single example in history where that worked?
Also regarding comments about people's conscience: Veganism is not about your conscience, it's about the animals. If you had to slaughter an animal, and in exchange a dictator, satisfied with tainting your pure soul, would command veganism on everyone, that is absolutely the right thing to do. If you feel bad about your vote, suck it up buttercup, animals have it worse. Hopefully that bad feeling will be counteracted by the good feeling of less animals being harmed. If you have some serious plan to put Stein in the Whitehouse, that's a different story, but as far as I understand, it is a protest vote.
PS: A broken clock is right twice a day. KBJ's vote to strike down prop 12 is shameful and on its own solidifies her as my most disliked of the liberal justices, but it's also disingenuous to say it was "saved by conservatives". 2/3 Dem appointed justices voted for it and 3/6 Rep appointed ones did. Anything that goes through the Supreme Court needs conservative votes to pass, that's just a sad reality. Also, have we considered how bad Dobbs was for animals? All these extra people that would otherwise have not been born?
You have a following, people look up to you. If you're going to come in with a flaming hot take, it should be supported by better analysis than this. If you woke up one day in November and read that Trump won the electoral college by barely eking out Pennsylvania let's say by 5 votes and you discovered that 3 Pennsylvanians changed their vote from Kamala to Trump due to your post, can you in earnest say you would be happy with this result? If not, I would implore you to consider writing a more complete analysis.