Wayne you make an excellent point about forgiveness. But that does not change the fact that your protest against PETA is right on the money. They must stop killing dogs at their so called shelter,
and stop supporting breed-specific legislation in cities counties and states. Wayne Johnson PhD
PETA places animals in excellent, lifelong homes, as you can see on their website and in the video below. PETA is not a traditional shelter. They accept animals whom "no-kill" facilities often turn away because they aren’t adoptable. After seeing some of these animals, I think you’ll agree that a painless end through euthanasia is far kinder than letting them linger in pain or turning them away to suffer and die on the streets. Please watch this short video to see some of the animals PETA has helped in its community: https://vimeo.com/670285258/ad3c588aed
Thank you for sharing that video. I have seen dog fighting videos, and I will never forget the older, golden retriever mix who was being used as bait and the pitbull just attacking because he was trained that if he didn't he would be killed. Both dogs were so dead on the inside because of human greed. I will always support breed restrictions. I advise anyone who disagrees with them to really look into how widespread dogfighting is, and how many animals are tortured. Think larger than just your own, beautiful pitbull companion.
Thanks for sharing the stereotype that bully dogs are fighters. Thousands of innocent Pitbulls have suffered in Denver, Miami, the state of Ohio because of these brutal discriminatory breed specific legislation laws
How about all the healthy animals that are killed at that so-called shelter in Norfolk. How about their support for breed specific legislation, which is responsible for countless deaths of Pitbulls all over America. There is no defense for this policy. They do good work in several areas, but PETA is wrong about this.
Thousands of companion animals are killed in US shelters everyday. The number of animals that PeTA has killed in its entire existence (forty years plus) is equal to a few days of killing for USA.
Perhaps you could pick up specific cases where PeTA has been the devil and try to nail PeTA.
My country has a no-kill policy for companion animals.
She is, indeed. Brilliant and a visionary for the movement.
Hope all is well with you, Emek! I'd like to get you involved in this new project. We're officially "launching" on August 15 with a launch party scheduled for August 19.
I am a new supporter of DxE, and I applaud you for your compassion, generosity of spirit, and evangelical fervor on behalf of animals. And I agree with your general point about the narcissism of small differences--a term I have not heard since graduate school a million years ago. However, I think that PETA is a monstrous, despicable organization, and I stand with Nathan Winograd in his condemnation of this organization. So, as between PETA and other organizations, we are talking not about small differences, but about huge gulfs. There is a chilling--and credible-- account of what it's like to work for PETA, written by the wife of an American diplomat, no less. And, if I ever get a chance to talk to you--which I hope I do--I will tell you about the misguided and unethical tactics PETA used against an elephant sanctuary in Missouri, of which I have almost first-hand knowledge. I'd also love to swap U of C stories with you--I was there, I think, a couple of generations before you.
I respect the work Winograd has done for animals. But the intense focus on attacking another animal organization is, in my view, very counter-productive.
But for sure I would love to chat with you. When were you at the U of C? The place still holds a special place in my heart.
Undergraduate 1960-64. Bernie Sander's class, although I didn't know him. Lived in Pierce Tower in its inaugural year. Now it's been torn down, as you probably know. Doctoral studies, Human Development, 1964-67. Never wrote a dissertation. I had the GPA to enter the Law School in lieu of my senior undergraduate year--is that how you did it?--but I didn't want to be a lawyer then. When I did decide I wanted to be a lawyer, U of C was out of reach.
Well yes, it would be very nice not to have to attack other animal organizations. But I think the behavior of the "big three"--PETA, ASPCA, and HSUS--is often egregious and needs to be brought to light. I am grateful that Winograd is there to do it. And like you, he's someone with a distinguished legal pedigree--Stanford, in his case.
I don't know what the wife of an American diplomat has to say, but I've worked at PETA for over 19 years. My closest friends are all former PETA employees. I've known many hundreds of employees of PETA. Like with any job - some leave on great terms - some don't leave on great terms (and many haven't left, at all, of course). There's no chilling story to be uncovered.
I hope you give equal weight in your mind to me as a PETA employee telling you it's been a great place for me to work and I'm very proud of all the good for animals I've been able to do at PETA.
If that is the way you feel, fine. And, in the spirit of Wayne's original post, I certainly do respect your long-term commitment to animals. However, may I point out that you are Senior Vice President for Digital Marketing at PETA, which means you have probably had very different experiences from those of Heather Harper-Troje, the author of this article. I would be most interested in reading any specific refutations you might have of her article. I would not be interested in hearing that it is just the ramblings of a disgruntled employee, which I believe is what PETA has said in the past. Ms. Harper-Troje has expressed a willingness to testify under oath as to the veracity of her allegations.
Winograd has been after PETA for a decade at least whining about how PETA and open-admission shelters advocate euthanasia over farming animals out to completely unregulated “no kill” shelters and how mandatory spay and neuter is a bad idea. It’s like a neoliberal approach to animal shelters and it’s sickening. Now we have local governments shutting down their animal control and public shelters and leaving strays and unwanted animals up to the streets. Local govts love this bc it saves lots of $$$. It’s horrible for the animals. I completely agree w PETA that pit bulls should be outlawed. There has been no progress on dog fighting and animal abuse is rarely prosecuted. That’s the reality. Go live in the fantasy land I used to inhabit and celebrate pit bulls wearing party hats as real change while those poor creatures and sometimes humans, bear an unspeakable burden.
In the scheme of things, I think it was. On 99.999% of the situations involving an animal facing death, PETA and I agreed. And I think one of the problems with movements is focusing on ethical purity, over impact. The thing all the animals, including pit bulls, need most from us is an effective movement, which depends in part on setting your differences aside. I appreciate this feedback thought. And I understand others might not think the difference is "small."
Setting minor differences aside, picking your battles, resolving intra-moment differences privately and all that. A very relatable article and well written. Dog bless Sir.
Is there a way to communicate with you via email? I have a large scale animal abuse issue that I would like to share with you and your network. Please advise.
As a dog and pitbull lover since childhood (Cooper, one of the most loving animal companions in my life was a purebred pitbull rescued as a puppy in Detroit,) I agree with PETA's stance on breed restrictions. PETA is attempting to end the horrors that these amazing dogs endure. Maybe not your wonderful companion, but thousands upon thousands of OTHER dogs who are suffering right now.
I agree that it can cause inconvenience and harm for some pitbull lovers who may need to find a new place to live, keep their dog's breed a secret, or petition their local government for alternate solutions to dogfighting. I know I would sell my home and relocate for my dog, just as I would move if I had to for my human daughter.
Even though they're starved, beaten, and otherwise kept in a constant state of fear to get them to fight, pitbulls are not the only victims of dog fighting: "bait" animals are also used to train these generally sweet individuals to attack for their life. Feral cats, lost animal companions, stray cats and dogs and even captured wildlife are used as bait for "practice".
Unfortunately and heartbreakingly, many dogs born into fighting rings, or who have been "living" in them for so long that they've lost their minds, are simply unsavable. These individuals will always live in fear of other animals and humans because they know nothing else, and very often, the most humane thing to do is end their suffering.
As someone who has helped euthanize animals (not for PETA), I wish that was not the case. It is not an easy choice to make. I wish we could save them all, but we just can't.
We need to outlaw breeding. We need to fund spay and neutering programs, We need to start animal abuse registries. Please think of the larger picture and bring your own solution to your city council. An animal abuse registry, something like the sexual abuse registry, is a good start. What else?
You know I used to donate $$$$ to A LOT of animal charities, but I am picky about it now BC there are a lot of fakes including the Humane Society which I no longer support and PETA........which I still at times do. I know the stories of them putting down animals and I really do not agree with it. I saw a documentary from them about backyard dogs and they're quick to euthanize any animal that shows aggression or is too neglected and has a long recovery and it makes me sick, BUT, I feel that their outrageous and "illegal" tactics have made progress? IDK I have a love/hate relationship with PETA. I also saw a VICE DXE documentary where they tried to remain "unbiased," but to me they tried to make you out to be a typical animal terrorist which is ok to me lol! I like the "weird, psycho" ones if they are working for a just cause 😁 especially when they're cute 😜. They portrayed the farmer as a victim and trying to be reasonable with your group. It is very hard to tell sometimes who is the good and bad guys. There are things and people that are pure evil, but theres some where its not so black and white. This reminds me of Trump votes. I found out ppl whom I dearly loved were voting 4 this guy. I am not Democratic or Republican. I go by facts and I have views on all sides, but to me it meant you were a blatant racist and sexist. I am still torn about that. I recently got in touch with someone I told that they disgusted me BC of that. But it is very true what you state. I get the angriest and offended with those closest to me. With asshole strangers I don't waste my breath, but with those I care about I do tend to fight a lot. I do not think all opinions should be tolerated like those above, but sometimes it truly is pure ignorance and if we can have a conversation with the opposing view we may learn something or teach something. And sometimes the enemy of my friend is my friend. Ingrid should support you. She should not be offended that you love PitBulls and believe they should get second chances. I do not think you owe anyone an apology. I am glad she was reasonable and put her pride aside to help you. In the end were all still fighting for the animals even if were also hypocrites.
I didnt learn much from this article, but a moderate proportion of vegans would - those who constantly antagonise other vegans and animal rights activists. For me, the equation is rather different: a small difference in ideology could well decide how much time I spend with them, or reading or trying to understand their stuff. I didnt read the entire article on this occasion - I didnt think the effort was warranted. But I am not against people posting exactly what they want to post, if that's their style.
Wayne you make an excellent point about forgiveness. But that does not change the fact that your protest against PETA is right on the money. They must stop killing dogs at their so called shelter,
and stop supporting breed-specific legislation in cities counties and states. Wayne Johnson PhD
PETA places animals in excellent, lifelong homes, as you can see on their website and in the video below. PETA is not a traditional shelter. They accept animals whom "no-kill" facilities often turn away because they aren’t adoptable. After seeing some of these animals, I think you’ll agree that a painless end through euthanasia is far kinder than letting them linger in pain or turning them away to suffer and die on the streets. Please watch this short video to see some of the animals PETA has helped in its community: https://vimeo.com/670285258/ad3c588aed
Thank you for sharing that video. I have seen dog fighting videos, and I will never forget the older, golden retriever mix who was being used as bait and the pitbull just attacking because he was trained that if he didn't he would be killed. Both dogs were so dead on the inside because of human greed. I will always support breed restrictions. I advise anyone who disagrees with them to really look into how widespread dogfighting is, and how many animals are tortured. Think larger than just your own, beautiful pitbull companion.
Thanks for sharing the stereotype that bully dogs are fighters. Thousands of innocent Pitbulls have suffered in Denver, Miami, the state of Ohio because of these brutal discriminatory breed specific legislation laws
How about all the healthy animals that are killed at that so-called shelter in Norfolk. How about their support for breed specific legislation, which is responsible for countless deaths of Pitbulls all over America. There is no defense for this policy. They do good work in several areas, but PETA is wrong about this.
Thousands of companion animals are killed in US shelters everyday. The number of animals that PeTA has killed in its entire existence (forty years plus) is equal to a few days of killing for USA.
Perhaps you could pick up specific cases where PeTA has been the devil and try to nail PeTA.
My country has a no-kill policy for companion animals.
Thanks Wayne for always trying different approaches and sharing what you learn. Great post. Ingrid is one of a kind ♥️💙🐇
She is, indeed. Brilliant and a visionary for the movement.
Hope all is well with you, Emek! I'd like to get you involved in this new project. We're officially "launching" on August 15 with a launch party scheduled for August 19.
All good :) Great to hear! I'd love to get involved. <3 Hugs
Great article. Thank you.
Thanks Sally!
I am a new supporter of DxE, and I applaud you for your compassion, generosity of spirit, and evangelical fervor on behalf of animals. And I agree with your general point about the narcissism of small differences--a term I have not heard since graduate school a million years ago. However, I think that PETA is a monstrous, despicable organization, and I stand with Nathan Winograd in his condemnation of this organization. So, as between PETA and other organizations, we are talking not about small differences, but about huge gulfs. There is a chilling--and credible-- account of what it's like to work for PETA, written by the wife of an American diplomat, no less. And, if I ever get a chance to talk to you--which I hope I do--I will tell you about the misguided and unethical tactics PETA used against an elephant sanctuary in Missouri, of which I have almost first-hand knowledge. I'd also love to swap U of C stories with you--I was there, I think, a couple of generations before you.
I respect the work Winograd has done for animals. But the intense focus on attacking another animal organization is, in my view, very counter-productive.
But for sure I would love to chat with you. When were you at the U of C? The place still holds a special place in my heart.
Undergraduate 1960-64. Bernie Sander's class, although I didn't know him. Lived in Pierce Tower in its inaugural year. Now it's been torn down, as you probably know. Doctoral studies, Human Development, 1964-67. Never wrote a dissertation. I had the GPA to enter the Law School in lieu of my senior undergraduate year--is that how you did it?--but I didn't want to be a lawyer then. When I did decide I wanted to be a lawyer, U of C was out of reach.
Well yes, it would be very nice not to have to attack other animal organizations. But I think the behavior of the "big three"--PETA, ASPCA, and HSUS--is often egregious and needs to be brought to light. I am grateful that Winograd is there to do it. And like you, he's someone with a distinguished legal pedigree--Stanford, in his case.
I don't know what the wife of an American diplomat has to say, but I've worked at PETA for over 19 years. My closest friends are all former PETA employees. I've known many hundreds of employees of PETA. Like with any job - some leave on great terms - some don't leave on great terms (and many haven't left, at all, of course). There's no chilling story to be uncovered.
I beg to disagree that there is no chilling story to be uncovered. Here is a link:
https://mom2nomads.wordpress.com/2015/02/09/rescued-by-black-boy-how-a-neglected-dog-set-me-back-on-my-path-away-from-peta/
I hope you give equal weight in your mind to me as a PETA employee telling you it's been a great place for me to work and I'm very proud of all the good for animals I've been able to do at PETA.
If that is the way you feel, fine. And, in the spirit of Wayne's original post, I certainly do respect your long-term commitment to animals. However, may I point out that you are Senior Vice President for Digital Marketing at PETA, which means you have probably had very different experiences from those of Heather Harper-Troje, the author of this article. I would be most interested in reading any specific refutations you might have of her article. I would not be interested in hearing that it is just the ramblings of a disgruntled employee, which I believe is what PETA has said in the past. Ms. Harper-Troje has expressed a willingness to testify under oath as to the veracity of her allegations.
Winograd has been after PETA for a decade at least whining about how PETA and open-admission shelters advocate euthanasia over farming animals out to completely unregulated “no kill” shelters and how mandatory spay and neuter is a bad idea. It’s like a neoliberal approach to animal shelters and it’s sickening. Now we have local governments shutting down their animal control and public shelters and leaving strays and unwanted animals up to the streets. Local govts love this bc it saves lots of $$$. It’s horrible for the animals. I completely agree w PETA that pit bulls should be outlawed. There has been no progress on dog fighting and animal abuse is rarely prosecuted. That’s the reality. Go live in the fantasy land I used to inhabit and celebrate pit bulls wearing party hats as real change while those poor creatures and sometimes humans, bear an unspeakable burden.
What ever happened to the children’s pit bull book winograd’s friend was peddling?
PeTA wanted dogs to be killed, Hsiung wanted them to live, a matter of life and death.
Hsiung calls it a "small difference".
In the scheme of things, I think it was. On 99.999% of the situations involving an animal facing death, PETA and I agreed. And I think one of the problems with movements is focusing on ethical purity, over impact. The thing all the animals, including pit bulls, need most from us is an effective movement, which depends in part on setting your differences aside. I appreciate this feedback thought. And I understand others might not think the difference is "small."
Setting minor differences aside, picking your battles, resolving intra-moment differences privately and all that. A very relatable article and well written. Dog bless Sir.
Is there a way to communicate with you via email? I have a large scale animal abuse issue that I would like to share with you and your network. Please advise.
Sure, feel free to shoot an email to wayne@thegreenpillpodcast.com!
Wayne please read this….
https://withangelsandelephants.com/2021/09/17/dinahs-chat-about-horses/
Wow, what a great story! Thanks for all you do for animals, Wayne. 💚
Thanks Jill!
Thanks for sharing this important lesson!
Thanks Yasmin! Hope your research is going well.
As a dog and pitbull lover since childhood (Cooper, one of the most loving animal companions in my life was a purebred pitbull rescued as a puppy in Detroit,) I agree with PETA's stance on breed restrictions. PETA is attempting to end the horrors that these amazing dogs endure. Maybe not your wonderful companion, but thousands upon thousands of OTHER dogs who are suffering right now.
I agree that it can cause inconvenience and harm for some pitbull lovers who may need to find a new place to live, keep their dog's breed a secret, or petition their local government for alternate solutions to dogfighting. I know I would sell my home and relocate for my dog, just as I would move if I had to for my human daughter.
Even though they're starved, beaten, and otherwise kept in a constant state of fear to get them to fight, pitbulls are not the only victims of dog fighting: "bait" animals are also used to train these generally sweet individuals to attack for their life. Feral cats, lost animal companions, stray cats and dogs and even captured wildlife are used as bait for "practice".
Unfortunately and heartbreakingly, many dogs born into fighting rings, or who have been "living" in them for so long that they've lost their minds, are simply unsavable. These individuals will always live in fear of other animals and humans because they know nothing else, and very often, the most humane thing to do is end their suffering.
As someone who has helped euthanize animals (not for PETA), I wish that was not the case. It is not an easy choice to make. I wish we could save them all, but we just can't.
We need to outlaw breeding. We need to fund spay and neutering programs, We need to start animal abuse registries. Please think of the larger picture and bring your own solution to your city council. An animal abuse registry, something like the sexual abuse registry, is a good start. What else?
i needed to hear this message today. thanks Wayne 🖤
You know I used to donate $$$$ to A LOT of animal charities, but I am picky about it now BC there are a lot of fakes including the Humane Society which I no longer support and PETA........which I still at times do. I know the stories of them putting down animals and I really do not agree with it. I saw a documentary from them about backyard dogs and they're quick to euthanize any animal that shows aggression or is too neglected and has a long recovery and it makes me sick, BUT, I feel that their outrageous and "illegal" tactics have made progress? IDK I have a love/hate relationship with PETA. I also saw a VICE DXE documentary where they tried to remain "unbiased," but to me they tried to make you out to be a typical animal terrorist which is ok to me lol! I like the "weird, psycho" ones if they are working for a just cause 😁 especially when they're cute 😜. They portrayed the farmer as a victim and trying to be reasonable with your group. It is very hard to tell sometimes who is the good and bad guys. There are things and people that are pure evil, but theres some where its not so black and white. This reminds me of Trump votes. I found out ppl whom I dearly loved were voting 4 this guy. I am not Democratic or Republican. I go by facts and I have views on all sides, but to me it meant you were a blatant racist and sexist. I am still torn about that. I recently got in touch with someone I told that they disgusted me BC of that. But it is very true what you state. I get the angriest and offended with those closest to me. With asshole strangers I don't waste my breath, but with those I care about I do tend to fight a lot. I do not think all opinions should be tolerated like those above, but sometimes it truly is pure ignorance and if we can have a conversation with the opposing view we may learn something or teach something. And sometimes the enemy of my friend is my friend. Ingrid should support you. She should not be offended that you love PitBulls and believe they should get second chances. I do not think you owe anyone an apology. I am glad she was reasonable and put her pride aside to help you. In the end were all still fighting for the animals even if were also hypocrites.
I didnt learn much from this article, but a moderate proportion of vegans would - those who constantly antagonise other vegans and animal rights activists. For me, the equation is rather different: a small difference in ideology could well decide how much time I spend with them, or reading or trying to understand their stuff. I didnt read the entire article on this occasion - I didnt think the effort was warranted. But I am not against people posting exactly what they want to post, if that's their style.